Why do you believe...?

Kc, I think I have an idea for another discussion for you. If you don't want to do it here, we can do it at the pub.The passage in question is:

Rom 8:20-21 For the creation was subjected to futility--not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it--in the hope (21) that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of corruption into the glorious freedom of God's children.

If we momentarily exclude the paranthetical phrase, we have 'the creation was subjected to futility in the hope that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of coruption'.

The paranthetical phrase gives the idea of why it was placed into futility. But I think that it is support for the main idea.

The creation was subjected to futility in hope that it will be freed. This is the idea I try to present, we were destined to sin, so that we would be redeemed. Creation was subjected to futility (also translated depravity or inutility) so that it can be set free.

Then when we consider the paranthetical phrase, we have creation not being subjected willingly, as in it willed itself to become depraved (that is almost a given), but it was subjected because of Him who subjected it. To me this sounds like it was not subjected by its own will, but it was subjected because of God's will, or because of God's plan, more or less. This bolsters the idea that it was subjected so that it can be freed.

:D

Why do you believe that this is evidence that God determined the fall of man?

Discussion for this topic will be held at the Forum of the New and Improved Protestant Pub.