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    "You are really cool you are married to an European!! How cooler can you be??"
    Fisherman Pecheur

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    "Oh, you did not ask for Bonhoeffer's opinion did you? You wanted mine..."
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    Kind Kristi

    "I enjoy your comments, but they are always delightfully enigmatic"
    Dyspraxic Fundamentalist

Friday, March 30, 2007

Why do you believe...?

Israel had a zeal for God but not according to knowledge. The oracles of God were committed to them but the knowledge of the truth was withheld.

Why do you do the truth; is it because you have a desire to do it, because you have an understanding of it, or because you have knowledge (belief) of it?

Why do you believe you do the truth?

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Anonymous Gordon Cloud said...

Wow, that's a challenging question. Let me throw this answer out there and see if it bounces.

Throughout the Bible there is a coupling of faith and obedience. The disciples in the NT obeyed Christ because they knew Him as truth personified.

If we know and believe the truth, we have no choice but to do the truth, else our faith is unfulfilled and we are living in the "dead faith" as described by James that produces no works.

Feel free to pick that apart if you so desire.

3/30/2007 05:15:00 PM  
Blogger Kc said...

Gordon thanks so much for taking this one on and thanks for allowing me to pick apart your thoughts. I really look forward to your understanding on this.

“If we know and believe the truth”
I take this to be those who God gives to Christ (John 6:40). My contention is that faith is not a product of desire or understanding but the acceptance of that which God reveals in our heart. How can you desire what you don’t know or understand what is not revealed?

“we have no choice but to do the truth, else”
I’m assuming that you mean the only valid or rational choice would be to do the truth. To do otherwise would be to oppose one’s self (2nd Tim. 2:26).

“else, our faith is unfulfilled and we are living in the "dead faith" as described by James that produces no works”
I take this to be those who live in opposition to their knowledge of the truth (Heb. 6:4-6).

3/30/2007 08:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Gordon Cloud said...

KC, I think we are pretty much in agreement on this. Some of the statements in my first comment were a bit muddled and you have done a good job of clarifying them.

I've been dealing with sinuses this week and therefore reserve the right to not be held responsible for anything I say. :-)

3/30/2007 09:09:00 PM  
Blogger Kc said...

Preacher I really hope you’re feeling better.

I really thought your statements were good and clear but I wanted to isolate the single thought that I’m hoping to discuss in this thread; specifically how the scripture relates that it is the knowledge we possess (not simply information, but our beliefs) that determines who we are. Ultimately I hope to discuss the importance of being rooted and grounded in the truth (Christ) as well as both our responsibility and ability in that. I think it has much more to do with acceptance than right thinking and that both our desire to serve God as well as our understanding of His will for our life are wholly dependent on the knowledge of the truth.

3/31/2007 07:52:00 AM  
Anonymous rrbj said...

I almost didn't comment because ya'll covered it very well, its nice to have theologians explain it better than I could? Blessings and have a good weekend! Ron.

3/31/2007 08:28:00 AM  
Blogger Kc said...

Bro. Ron I love to discuss these things with the wonderfully trained and devoted theologians we have here in the blogsphere. It seems an incredible blessing to me to be able to interact with these men who’ve given so much of their time and effort to their studies. I’m also blessed in the discussions with others, like myself, who have a great desire for God but lack any formal training. They often hold a unique perspective that’s been overlooked in the mainstream or set aside as having a minimal impact or appeal. ;-)

3/31/2007 10:34:00 AM  
Blogger Mrs Zeke said...

You are all over my head I don't get the question(s)

If someone would like to put it in idiot speak it might help.

I'll wait :)

be loved

3/31/2007 05:49:00 PM  
Blogger Kc said...

Lady Z, I find it nearly impossible to force myself to respond when you frame your request with such implications on yourself! I do appreciate the request though. ;-)

I do think I should make a post explaining my understanding of “doing” the truth and being a “doer” and not only a hearer of the word. Maybe then the question will make more sense. I will try and make that my next article. ;-)

4/01/2007 06:52:00 AM  
Blogger Mrs Zeke said...

aw KC let me explain. I prefer idiot speak for lack of a better term because then I am not likely to misunderstand you.
You are so very important I would rather be viewed as an idiot then misunderstand what you are saying.

Its very simple
Be loved

4/01/2007 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger dorsey said...

I have a desire to be a doer of the truth.
I have some degree of understanding the doing.
I believe in the truth that I can grasp (which is little).

The problem is I'm too d*mned selfish to "do" all the truth I know I should. Sometimes I worry that this constitutes (or at least betrays) my unbelief.

4/01/2007 09:14:00 PM  
Blogger Missy said...

I intend to weigh in when I have a little more scripture study under my belt, but I just had to say that Dorsey's comment completely describes my gut-feeling response at the moment.

4/02/2007 08:50:00 AM  
Blogger Kris said...

Dorsey said:
"I have a desire to be a doer of the truth.
I have some degree of understanding the doing.
I believe in the truth that I can grasp (which is little).

The problem is I'm too d*mned selfish to "do" all the truth I know I should."

Are you reading my mind? I would add too d*mned scared for me, but I think that inevitably goes all the way back to being self-centered in the end also.

In the end the only thing that my soul can relief or rest on is Christ alone. The moment I start to look for any persevering works for peace, peace is as far as the east is from the west.

4/02/2007 02:46:00 PM  
Blogger jel said...

got nutting to add here,

just a flyby
how~dee there! :)

4/03/2007 11:07:00 AM  
Blogger Missy said...

”This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.” (1 John 1:5-10)

This is the scripture that has been in my heart as I have been pondering your question, KC.

At first, I looked at this as a challenge to question what I do – or better yet, don’t do – and see if it lines up with the truth. Of course, my first goal was to define what truth is – oh, boy! I tried to keep it simple:

In prayer, Jesus says, “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.” (John 17:17)

So, I am proceeding with the assumption that God’s word is truth.

God’s word is something that comes to us; it is a shield, a vision, a command (Genesis 15:1, Ezekiel 21:1-3).

To hear and obey it defines one as a brother or sister of Christ (Luke 8:21).

It is simple to understand (Hebrews 5:12).

It is a tested refuge (Proverbs 30:5).

It is the sword of the Spirit (Ephesians 6:17).

And finally, it is all the above; it is Christ (John 14:6)

So to bring it back to where I began, and to explain why I believe I do the truth:

“Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, ‘I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.’” (John 8:12)

I follow Christ. I stumble. I go very slow, and I even take long naps – but I still follow.

How do I know? You didn't ask me that, you just asked "Why?" ;-P

"But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.” Deuteronomy 30:14

4/03/2007 12:11:00 PM  
Blogger dorsey said...

If Christ is the Word, and Christ's command was simply to love, then is love the embodiment of the Word (or vice versa)? I'm just sayin', is all.

4/03/2007 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger Missy said...

Would it be the Spirit if "Gimme Some Lovin'" just began playing on my iPod as I read the last comment?

4/03/2007 01:34:00 PM  
Blogger RF2R2 said...

dorsey said,
The problem is I'm too d*mned selfish to "do" all the truth I know I should.

I would add, "and too ignorant," as well. I'm realizing that many things I am and confess inside my head aren't making it past my skin. I attirbute this to a combination of weakness, lethargy, and lack of understanding as well.

This leads me also to ponder a betrayal of my, as you say, unbelief.

4/03/2007 05:11:00 PM  
Blogger RF2R2 said...

dorse said,
... then is love the embodiment of the Word?

Flesh: Unfortunately.

Spirit: Absolutely, *smile*.

4/03/2007 05:13:00 PM  
Blogger Kc said...

Thanks so much all. I'll come back to this one soon but I'm still trying to think of a better way to frame my thoughts on this. Janice a flyby is always welcome! ;-)

4/05/2007 12:21:00 PM  
Blogger sofyst said...

Through acts of my own stupidity, I had to get a new phone. Therefore, I have lost your number. I am ready to talk now...any time you are so privy to speak with a manic pagan and lecher of the highest degree.

4/06/2007 12:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

papu, thank you so much for all the prayers. love you and mamu! (((HUGS)))

4/08/2007 12:13:00 AM  

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